- Christopher

Could we call using JonBenet to end an argument Butcher’s Law? (please say yes, please say yes)

I had to resist the urge to make it bigger, too.

That said, I don’t like the way girls are depicted in a lot of manga. On the other hand, Jon Benet was a real little girl being whored out by her mother, not a drawing–although both things represent a discomfiting level of skeeve.

I’m glad you appreciated my response to the “To Terra…” situation. I think there is never nothing that can’t not be righted with humor.

But seriously, in a North America that gets so caught up in the inanities of authenticity (ibid. Frey, LeRoy, TokyoPop’s “100% authentic Japanese!” slogan), I’m never surprised at our insistence on labeling everything in ways that will make it easy to beat the shit out of them. That’s essentially how the Ku Klux Klan and Williamsburg, Brooklyn were founded, after all. But you know, I’m always annoyed by competitive fandom (e.g. “You mean to tell me you don’t know Brian Lee O’Malley?!!?”)…or for that matter entitled fandom (e.g. “I actually work with comics so I know what I’m talking about”), disenfranchised fandom (e.g. “They just don’t make comics like they used to. Now it’s all crap manga.”), and violated fandom (e.g. “I can’t believe what a douchebag that inker is. I’ll never pick up another of his comics.” BTW I have nothing against inkers. They just seem like an easy target, much like directors of marketing & publicity of small presses like Vertical.).

During the “To Terra…” “scandal” I joked with some people at Viz that our fans (including our own selves) have too much time on our hands. They joked that there was a really frustrating period at the company when everyone was single. I responded that likewise, it has been so long since anyone at Vertical had seen ass that we can’t even tell the difference between boys and girls anymore…hence the genre/gender “scnadal”.

My point is, someone needs to pat us all on the head and tell us we’re worthwhile human beings, so we don’t get at each others’ throats over “difference”. In other words, we all need to get laid. Look at us, I feel sorry for us. Why can’t we be more like Dungeons & Dragons fans? Unapologetically happy to believe in dragons, no matter their color? In fact at NY Comic-Con I propose all the exhibitors and journalists hold hands around the Javitz Center and sing “Beautiful” by Christina Aguilera.

You can say that you want to “encourage people with limited experience to comment and ask questions,” but you never acknowledge in your writing, particularly not in your tone, that you’re one of those people. While you may never have dismissed manga out of hand, I also never accused you of doing that either. Instead, my problem is that you said “a is better than b” without knowing much about b, instead of saying “I really like this thing that a does, but I find it absent in b. Am I missing the mark? What can you recommend that I might enjoy?” The latter is the “commenting and questioning” you say you want your site to be. The former is the actuality of your column, which sees you come off as, at best, woefully underinformed to be making the assertions you do.

“…it may be of benefit to hear from those who aren’t already deeply entrenched in the culture to find out why they’re reluctant to come in.”

Completely agreed. I would love to hear from whomever about their experiences and opinions, but only so far as their commentary doesn’t extend past their experiences and opinions. At least not if it’s going to be stated as fact.

“There are so many places that newbies are either explicitly or implicitly unwelcome. Based on your last sentence, I know that comics212 is explicitly one of those places. I just hope that The Beguiling doesn’t also have that same elitism when a newbie walks in the door.”

Actually, I’m the friendly one at the store.

- Christopher

But getting to the larger point in your question, I think that being put-off by fans of a certain type of media or individual project is not new, and also unfortunate. But considering how much of their identity is wrapped up in manga and anime, I’m not surprised to see how defensive and occasionally irrational fans get about it either. I guess my advice would be to grow a thicker skin, and deal with the situations as they pop up in exactly the way Anne Ishi did in the To Terra example…

A few times I’ll see a review where someone goes, “I really enjoyed this; it was the kind of fantasy I would have enjoyed ten times more as a teen” and then I’ll see a comment on that review where a writer is like, “You dumbass; it’s not meant for teens at all!”

In my own defense, I never once wrote off manga out of hand. In fact, in the first column in the series (Manga Shmanga) I state, “I don’t think manga is better than North American comic books, but I am not going to argue that North American comic books are better, either. I think they’re both great, but they both have ways in which they suck (professional opinion). They’re just different.”

I understand that you think that the Fanboys Fight Back column suffered from a limited experience in manga, but once again, my intention was to provide things that discourage me (as an outsider coming into manga from mainstream and indie North American comics) from delving into it – not a scholarly analysis of the subject.

Then in my most recent column (Manga’s Good Bits), I actually talk about the things that I think manga does better than North American comics – specifically referring to Marvel and DC. This was a way to point out to people on my side of the fence that manga’s got some things going for it. Heck, I’m starting to read some of it. You left me a snarky comment, but I still don’t know what problems you had with my assertions in that column.

One of the things we’re trying to do at Comicsnob.com is bring together various viewpoints, because we can’t all be fans of everything. I’d like to think that I speak for a lot of comics fans who may like all kinds of floppy comics, but are intimidated by manga. Meanwhile, Matt speaks for those manga fans who started in DC/Marvel, made the switch, and are reluctant to go back to floppies for one reason or another. Over time, we’ll be adding more contributors with different experiences, and our worldview will broaden.

It’s in the discussion that common ground and growth can take place. That’s why I want to encourage people with limited experience to comment and ask questions. When one of the biggest problems with comics today is actually getting people into the stores (perhaps not a big problem for someplace like The Beguiling, but certainly a huge problem at a lot of small shops in the U.S.), it may be of benefit to hear from those who aren’t already deeply entrenched in the culture to find out why they’re reluctant to come in.

There are so many places that newbies are either explicitly or implicitly unwelcome. Based on your last sentence, I know that comics212 is explicitly one of those places. I just hope that The Beguiling doesn’t also have that same elitism when a newbie walks in the door.

On the flip side I do recognize my own inability to appreciate manga. I feel a bit lost and wasn’t particularly captivated by what I’ve picked up but that’s just my own tastes as with anything else. Still, I did like “Push Man and Other Stories,” and I’m thinking of taking on Manga in a similar fashion to my current Project BD (although I’m less likely to learn Japanese to be able to get untranslated work).

I always find these types of criticisms slightly fascinating. A while ago I decided to stop criticising and see if I could learn to appreciate something like manga or if I tried and it didn’t work, it would be like sonic-jazz or prog-rock and just be something I’m not into.