Comments on: The Creative Underclass http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/ Never Safe For Work Wed, 10 Mar 2010 18:07:20 -0800 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: ReidFire http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-100211 ReidFire Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:53:30 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-100211 Hi! i've stumbled over your blog when I tried gathering informations about agents and representatives from net. And I can say that your writing has helped me so much! Thank you ^O^ I've been searching for agents info and until this time I haven't got useful information. Actually, I'm here to ask something also since you looks like an expert in this field... do you need to be the sole creator of a project (story+drawing) if you want to be represented by all of these wonderful agents? Or will they be willing to represent you only as a comic artist? I do know few of manga artists that use agents even tough they don't have a project and just waiting for script from a publisher to be assigned to them. But the problem is that I dont know if all of the agents employed just artist or all of them do...^^; I will be very thankful if you're willing to help me...since I'm not an American citizen and is living in Indonesia. I'm a manga artist and I do have my works published here and there but even tough you can stumble over few contracts sometimes it's hard to maintain them overtime when you dont have someone personally representating you in front of the publisher... Ah well...sorry for the long rambling. I hope you can help me tough. I'll be very very THANKFUL Sincerely, ReidFire aka Rhea Silvan Hi! i’ve stumbled over your blog when I tried gathering informations about agents and representatives from net. And I can say that your writing has helped me so much! Thank you ^O^ I’ve been searching for agents info and until this time I haven’t got useful information.

Actually, I’m here to ask something also since you looks like an expert in this field…
do you need to be the sole creator of a project (story+drawing) if you want to be represented by all of these wonderful agents? Or will they be willing to represent you only as a comic artist? I do know few of manga artists that use agents even tough they don’t have a project and just waiting for script from a publisher to be assigned to them. But the problem is that I dont know if all of the agents employed just artist or all of them do…^^;

I will be very thankful if you’re willing to help me…since I’m not an American citizen and is living in Indonesia. I’m a manga artist and I do have my works published here and there but even tough you can stumble over few contracts sometimes it’s hard to maintain them overtime when you dont have someone personally representating you in front of the publisher…

Ah well…sorry for the long rambling. I hope you can help me tough. I’ll be very very THANKFUL

Sincerely,
ReidFire aka Rhea Silvan

]]> By: Simon Jones http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3528 Simon Jones Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:59:48 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3528 Moe is actually a little creepier than that. There's a lot to suggest that it's gained in popularity because it's target audience, that is hard core Otaku, are threatened by the idea of full grown women, of a female other they can't relate to, the confuses and threatens them and that they can't fully understand. A cute little girl, on the other hand? Is non-threatening, they can feel in control, they can protect and feel like the stronger party. It's a genre feature built on the crippled psychology of it's target audience. They've gone from the fiesty girl perpetually harassing and threatening the hero, which is honestly more a function of anadolesenct girls are icky thing and more a function of shonen and it's target audience thing to a movement towards Moe for those sweet otaku yen. It's basically a Japanese version of things like Lady Death in the 90's. Only with pinafores rather than bikinis. All of which why Moe creeps me the hell out. So does Train Man. I really loathe train man. And, while I want me some more grown up manga (And some stuff from the 60's and 70's. Ashita No Joe would be nice for a start. or at least something other than bloody Tezuka) the YA market is where mangas bread is pretty much buttered, where even the vast majority of the japanese material lies. Moe is actually a little creepier than that. There’s a lot to suggest that it’s gained in popularity because it’s target audience, that is hard core Otaku, are threatened by the idea of full grown women, of a female other they can’t relate to, the confuses and threatens them and that they can’t fully understand. A cute little girl, on the other hand? Is non-threatening, they can feel in control, they can protect and feel like the stronger party. It’s a genre feature built on the crippled psychology of it’s target audience. They’ve gone from the fiesty girl perpetually harassing and threatening the hero, which is honestly more a function of anadolesenct girls are icky thing and more a function of shonen and it’s target audience thing to a movement towards Moe for those sweet otaku yen. It’s basically a Japanese version of things like Lady Death in the 90’s. Only with pinafores rather than bikinis. All of which why Moe creeps me the hell out. So does Train Man. I really loathe train man.

And, while I want me some more grown up manga (And some stuff from the 60’s and 70’s. Ashita No Joe would be nice for a start. or at least something other than bloody Tezuka) the YA market is where mangas bread is pretty much buttered, where even the vast majority of the japanese material lies.

]]> By: Chris http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3526 Chris Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:35:14 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3526 Simon- The problem with being perpetually geared to young adults is that the work doesn't STAY for young adults, and the fan base doesn't outgrow it. Sort of like Superheroes have aged with their audience, dirty old men will continue to buy Love Hina/Air Gear/Battle Vixens. Moe is just symptomatic of arrested adolesence I think... I dunno, this isn't a fully developed thought (just getting my head around it here...) but America is a much more permissive society than Japan, and I can just see groups of adult nerds adopting this culture at the same time as the kids, rather than moving to reading material that's actually for them. It's also a bit selfish because I, as an adult, would like to read more manga for adults, which does poorly here on release for the most part... I dunno. I just think it's sad how many 40 year olds relate to the protagonist from like CHOBITS or whatever. Simon- The problem with being perpetually geared to young adults is that the work doesn’t STAY for young adults, and the fan base doesn’t outgrow it. Sort of like Superheroes have aged with their audience, dirty old men will continue to buy Love Hina/Air Gear/Battle Vixens. Moe is just symptomatic of arrested adolesence I think… I dunno, this isn’t a fully developed thought (just getting my head around it here…) but America is a much more permissive society than Japan, and I can just see groups of adult nerds adopting this culture at the same time as the kids, rather than moving to reading material that’s actually for them. It’s also a bit selfish because I, as an adult, would like to read more manga for adults, which does poorly here on release for the most part…

I dunno. I just think it’s sad how many 40 year olds relate to the protagonist from like CHOBITS or whatever.

]]> By: Simon Jones http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3524 Simon Jones Wed, 06 Jun 2007 02:57:42 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3524 I have to ask, though, on the manga front, what's wrong with being perpetually geared towards a Young Adult market? Having people outgrow it and new people grow into it. It's a relatively sustainable and acceptable approach. It's honestly where the vast bulk of the home japanese market is, with a lot of the moe type stuff really be intended for the same perpetual man-children that have resulted in the big two's prominence. Moe creeps me the hell out. I have to ask, though, on the manga front, what’s wrong with being perpetually geared towards a Young Adult market? Having people outgrow it and new people grow into it. It’s a relatively sustainable and acceptable approach. It’s honestly where the vast bulk of the home japanese market is, with a lot of the moe type stuff really be intended for the same perpetual man-children that have resulted in the big two’s prominence.

Moe creeps me the hell out.

]]> By: Scott Bieser http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3516 Scott Bieser Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:05:04 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3516 Generally speaking, I see a further bifurcation of the market between superhero material primarily from the Big Two, and everyone else. As director for a small GN publisher this worries me a bit as I'd sooner compete with DC and Marvel than with Harper Collins or Scholastic. However, generally I expect the Big Two (and the Second Two) will survive for some time, and webcomics will serve the functions offered previously by indie comics publishers, who will mostly be doomed if they don't make the jump to the Web. Generally speaking, I see a further bifurcation of the market between superhero material primarily from the Big Two, and everyone else. As director for a small GN publisher this worries me a bit as I’d sooner compete with DC and Marvel than with Harper Collins or Scholastic. However, generally I expect the Big Two (and the Second Two) will survive for some time, and webcomics will serve the functions offered previously by indie comics publishers, who will mostly be doomed if they don’t make the jump to the Web.

]]> By: Joseph http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3513 Joseph Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:43:16 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3513 Wow, I hadn't realized that it was the old school book publishers sniping away (probably wrong term) people away like that. If that keeps growing and growing you're going to get an even larger schism between the direct market and the comics section of the local big huge bookshop. Will there be a point where either the direct market gets eaten by the borders/bn/amazon? I know that I buy fewer and fewer single issues as time goes by... And by more and more from internet sales and or bookshops? If that happens, other than the few artist who are already at harper-collins et al. are going to get squeezed. As in any industry the gatekeepers have the power, not the creative types. Will it be dark times? Wow, I hadn’t realized that it was the old school book publishers sniping away (probably wrong term) people away like that.

If that keeps growing and growing you’re going to get an even larger schism between the direct market and the comics section of the local big huge bookshop. Will there be a point where either the direct market gets eaten by the borders/bn/amazon?

I know that I buy fewer and fewer single issues as time goes by… And by more and more from internet sales and or bookshops?

If that happens, other than the few artist who are already at harper-collins et al. are going to get squeezed. As in any industry the gatekeepers have the power, not the creative types. Will it be dark times?

]]> By: Brian Hibbs http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3510 Brian Hibbs Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:29:08 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3510 "Let’s say everyone involved is currently much happier with that situation, except possibly Image?" Speaking as a retailer, I'm not at all thrilled with a 10%(+) lower discount, I have to admit! -B “Let’s say everyone involved is currently much happier with that situation, except possibly Image?”

Speaking as a retailer, I’m not at all thrilled with a 10%(+) lower discount, I have to admit!

-B

]]> By: John Lind http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3504 John Lind Tue, 05 Jun 2007 17:10:35 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3504 Speaking as a partner (whose main focus is admittedly the creative side of presentations and book packaging) in Denis Kitchen's new agency, Kitchen, Lind & Associates, I'd like to address this post... As I pointed out to Christopher Butcher in an email yesterday, there are numerous agents working in the book industry with graphic novel experience and obviously the goal of any agent is to get the best deal possible for their clients. The real story here (or "secret", as Christopher put it), isn't just Judy Hansen (and I'm not trying to take anything away from Judy's accomplishments), but agents in general. The story should have been that every creator who is aiming toward the book industry, GET AN AGENT TO NEGOTIATE YOUR CONTRACT. You might be able to stumble through a contract on your own, but you really need the kind of experience someone like Denis Kitchen or Judy Hansen (or Ken Levin or Allan Spiegel) has in your corner. Since agents are generally thought of on par with lawyers at the bottom of the food chain, it is tough to get this message across to the creative masses in comics (many of whom never thought they'd have use for an agent). I've heard too many private stories in the past year of creators who thought they could go it alone and failed. Comics has a long standing history of creators getting screwed, it would be nice to see that tradition end. I'm including a few quick follow-up links for creators, although I honestly have no idea what the submission status is with any of the following agents (with the exception of KLA, which accepts submissions online or at the MoCCA show), they may currently be closed to new clients and some are difficult to track down. I would suggest anyone interested in attaining representation do some serious research first. Allen Spiegel Fine Arts http://www.asfa.biz An interview with Ken Levin http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4895 The Gotham Group http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117947042.html?categoryid=2159&cs=1 Kitchen, Lind & Associates http://kitchenandlind.com Hansen Literary Agency (I only have Judy Hansen's private email address, but I assume she can be contacted thru her clients). Speaking as a partner (whose main focus is admittedly the creative side of presentations and book packaging) in Denis Kitchen’s new agency, Kitchen, Lind & Associates, I’d like to address this post…

As I pointed out to Christopher Butcher in an email yesterday, there are numerous agents working in the book industry with graphic novel experience and obviously the goal of any agent is to get the best deal possible for their clients.

The real story here (or “secret”, as Christopher put it), isn’t just Judy Hansen (and I’m not trying to take anything away from Judy’s accomplishments), but agents in general. The story should have been that every creator who is aiming toward the book industry, GET AN AGENT TO NEGOTIATE YOUR CONTRACT. You might be able to stumble through a contract on your own, but you really need the kind of experience someone like Denis Kitchen or Judy Hansen (or Ken Levin or Allan Spiegel) has in your corner.

Since agents are generally thought of on par with lawyers at the bottom of the food chain, it is tough to get this message across to the creative masses in comics (many of whom never thought they’d have use for an agent). I’ve heard too many private stories in the past year of creators who thought they could go it alone and failed. Comics has a long standing history of creators getting screwed, it would be nice to see that tradition end.

I’m including a few quick follow-up links for creators, although I honestly have no idea what the submission status is with any of the following agents (with the exception of KLA, which accepts submissions online or at the MoCCA show), they may currently be closed to new clients and some are difficult to track down. I would suggest anyone interested in attaining representation do some serious research first.

Allen Spiegel Fine Arts
http://www.asfa.biz

An interview with Ken Levin
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4895

The Gotham Group
http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117947042.html?categoryid=2159&cs=1

Kitchen, Lind & Associates
http://kitchenandlind.com

Hansen Literary Agency
(I only have Judy Hansen’s private email address, but I assume she can be contacted thru her clients).

]]> By: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » June 5, 2007: Numbers game http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3494 Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » June 5, 2007: Numbers game Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:50:43 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3494 [...] Is growth in the comics and graphic-novel markets not filtering down to cartoonists? Reacting to an argument made in a Tom Spurgeon essay, Christopher Butcher thinks that it isn’t as simple as that. [...] [...] Is growth in the comics and graphic-novel markets not filtering down to cartoonists? Reacting to an argument made in a Tom Spurgeon essay, Christopher Butcher thinks that it isn’t as simple as that. [...]

]]> By: huffy http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3462 huffy Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:40:10 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3462 That MOE poster if absolute genius. That MOE poster if absolute genius.

]]> By: Chris http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3451 Chris Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:12:51 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3451 Judy- Thanks for clarifying that, I had heard your agency described under both titles recently, and I defaulted to the earlier title. I've fixed it in my post now. Best, - Chris Judy- Thanks for clarifying that, I had heard your agency described under both titles recently, and I defaulted to the earlier title. I’ve fixed it in my post now.

Best,

- Chris

]]> By: Judy Hansen http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3450 Judy Hansen Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:43:39 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3450 Dear Christopher- I read your blog and I would like to confirm that I do try to obtain good deals for my clients. However, I need to correct an important error in your blog. My agency is the Hansen Literary Agency, not Kitchen & Hansen Agency. I still represent a few clients through the old agency including the Will Eisner estate, Wendy and Richard Pini, Mark Schultz, Bryan Talbot and Chuck Dixon to name a few. But after negotiating to revert all of Will Eisner's graphic novels from DC and place them at W.W.Norton, and many other deals, as the partner in the old agency who actually did all the trade book deal negotiations and contracts, I moved forward with my own agency. All of the clients you mentioned, Scott McCloud, Kean Soo, Kazu Kibuishi, Hope Larson and Svetlana Chmakova and a number of other fabulous creators and wonderful clients are exclusively represented by the Hansen Literary Agency. Facts are important so I want to clarify that I now take on new clients only through the Hansen Literary Agency. regards, Judy Hansen Dear Christopher-
I read your blog and I would like to confirm that I do try to obtain good deals for my clients.

However, I need to correct an important error in your blog. My agency is the Hansen Literary Agency, not Kitchen & Hansen Agency.

I still represent a few clients through the old agency including the Will Eisner estate, Wendy and Richard Pini, Mark Schultz, Bryan Talbot and Chuck Dixon to name a few. But after negotiating to revert all of Will Eisner’s graphic novels from DC and place them at W.W.Norton, and many other deals, as the partner in the old agency who actually did all the trade book deal negotiations and contracts, I moved forward with my own agency.

All of the clients you mentioned, Scott McCloud, Kean Soo, Kazu Kibuishi, Hope Larson and Svetlana Chmakova and a number of other fabulous creators and wonderful clients are exclusively represented by the Hansen Literary Agency.

Facts are important so I want to clarify that I now take on new clients only through the Hansen Literary Agency.

regards,
Judy Hansen

]]> By: Hope http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/comment-page-1/#comment-3437 Hope Sun, 03 Jun 2007 23:56:51 +0000 http://comics212.net/2007/06/03/the-creative-underclass/#comment-3437 Judy is a powerhouse! Judy is a powerhouse!

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