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	<title>Comments on: Manga Milestones 2000-2009: 10 Manga That Changed Comics #6</title>
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		<title>By: Daryl Surat</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-114263</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl Surat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:58:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-114263</guid>
		<description>While I&#039;m slightly confused as to why you&#039;d comment here, on a blog post from over a month ago, to respond to me specifically instead of just emailing me, I&#039;m not unaware of the publication timeline in question.

But rather than derail matters, suffice it to say that the original Dragon Ball was NOT a fighting-oriented series in the least and underwent several gradual revisions over time with each successive &quot;arc&quot; or &quot;saga&quot; such that at the peak of its popularity it was a vastly different comic in tone, style, characterizations, and content than what it originated as. Modern-day shonen action/adventure looks and feels a lot more similar to the portion of the Dragon Ball manga that was animated as the series Dragon Ball Z than it does to the portion you speak of that was animated as Dragon Ball. And DBZ owes more to the later portions of Fist of the North Star than it does to an imaginative interpretation of Journey to the West: power beams, ki attacks, hair that changes color, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While I&#8217;m slightly confused as to why you&#8217;d comment here, on a blog post from over a month ago, to respond to me specifically instead of just emailing me, I&#8217;m not unaware of the publication timeline in question.</p>
<p>But rather than derail matters, suffice it to say that the original Dragon Ball was NOT a fighting-oriented series in the least and underwent several gradual revisions over time with each successive &#8220;arc&#8221; or &#8220;saga&#8221; such that at the peak of its popularity it was a vastly different comic in tone, style, characterizations, and content than what it originated as. Modern-day shonen action/adventure looks and feels a lot more similar to the portion of the Dragon Ball manga that was animated as the series Dragon Ball Z than it does to the portion you speak of that was animated as Dragon Ball. And DBZ owes more to the later portions of Fist of the North Star than it does to an imaginative interpretation of Journey to the West: power beams, ki attacks, hair that changes color, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-114262</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 17:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-114262</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re wrong, Shonen fan.  

Dragonball started out as a barely-funny gag comic.  Why do you think it exploded in popularity after it shifted to a much heavier focus on &quot;serious&quot; fights?

Because it was mimicking the Hokuto no Ken template to achieve greater success.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re wrong, Shonen fan.  </p>
<p>Dragonball started out as a barely-funny gag comic.  Why do you think it exploded in popularity after it shifted to a much heavier focus on &#8220;serious&#8221; fights?</p>
<p>Because it was mimicking the Hokuto no Ken template to achieve greater success.</p>
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		<title>By: Shonen Fan</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-114236</link>
		<dc:creator>Shonen Fan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 02:49:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-114236</guid>
		<description>Daryl: Hokuto no Ken (FOTNS) was NOT a template for Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Naruto or Bleach.

Let me educate you a little bit. 

Dragonball came out not long after Hokuto no Ken, and its characters and story were being thought up before Hokuto no Ken even saw the light of day in Shonen Jump. It was primarily based off Toriyama&#039;s crazy imagination, chinese folklore and some hong kong movies at the time. 

Dragonball was the template for naruto, bleach, one piece, kenshin, etc etc, it wouldn&#039;t be the second best selling manga of all time if it was heavily influenced from a manga that came out a couple of months before. 

In saying that, Hokuto no Ken is awesome, but don&#039;t get too carried away there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Daryl: Hokuto no Ken (FOTNS) was NOT a template for Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Naruto or Bleach.</p>
<p>Let me educate you a little bit. </p>
<p>Dragonball came out not long after Hokuto no Ken, and its characters and story were being thought up before Hokuto no Ken even saw the light of day in Shonen Jump. It was primarily based off Toriyama&#8217;s crazy imagination, chinese folklore and some hong kong movies at the time. </p>
<p>Dragonball was the template for naruto, bleach, one piece, kenshin, etc etc, it wouldn&#8217;t be the second best selling manga of all time if it was heavily influenced from a manga that came out a couple of months before. </p>
<p>In saying that, Hokuto no Ken is awesome, but don&#8217;t get too carried away there.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Kosmicki</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113713</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Kosmicki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jan 2010 19:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113713</guid>
		<description>I was a charter subscriber to Raijin and stayed with them for quite a while. IIRC, it was Bow Wow Wata and the fact that the stories that I liked were being made available in better, cheaper form as collections. I like that you point out that Raijin was, among its other problems, pretty much the first victim of the &quot;wait for the trade&quot; fans.  I never liked the mix of stories, and just couldn&#039;t justify the cost of the subscription for a magazine where I&#039;d never enjoyed more than half of the individual stories at any given time.

First President of Japan and Revenge of the Mouflon, at least, deserve to be kept in print by someone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was a charter subscriber to Raijin and stayed with them for quite a while. IIRC, it was Bow Wow Wata and the fact that the stories that I liked were being made available in better, cheaper form as collections. I like that you point out that Raijin was, among its other problems, pretty much the first victim of the &#8220;wait for the trade&#8221; fans.  I never liked the mix of stories, and just couldn&#8217;t justify the cost of the subscription for a magazine where I&#8217;d never enjoyed more than half of the individual stories at any given time.</p>
<p>First President of Japan and Revenge of the Mouflon, at least, deserve to be kept in print by someone.</p>
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		<title>By: Milo</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113686</link>
		<dc:creator>Milo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Jan 2010 00:49:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113686</guid>
		<description>This article is pure greatness. Despite being 23, in many ways I&#039;m still catching up to the manly period of time that was the 80s and 90s, both in the US and in Japan.  I didn&#039;t get into anime until after Raijin went tits up, but you better believe I have every issue of it now.  To this day, the ONLY place you can find Keiji translated past chapter one is in Raijin Comics.  

As you say Christopher, Raijin Comics was doomed from the very beginning.  I remember reading one of the letters columns in Raijin and was horrified to hear the Editor say that by far, Guardian Angel Getten was the most popular title included in the magazine.  For those who don&#039;t know, this was a comic about a wimpy boy who gets an angel servant, who of course is innocent, sexy, and intimidates the hell out of him.  Anime and manga in the US had already &quot;gone gay&quot; by the time Raijin came out, and that fanbase was even subsidizing the damn thing!  

I can&#039;t imagine what it would be like getting a fresh chapter of Fist of the Blue Sky and Grappler Baki in your mailbox every week.  Maybe I&#039;ll never know what it feels like.  But here&#039;s hoping this stuff makes a comeback in a big way, someday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is pure greatness. Despite being 23, in many ways I&#8217;m still catching up to the manly period of time that was the 80s and 90s, both in the US and in Japan.  I didn&#8217;t get into anime until after Raijin went tits up, but you better believe I have every issue of it now.  To this day, the ONLY place you can find Keiji translated past chapter one is in Raijin Comics.  </p>
<p>As you say Christopher, Raijin Comics was doomed from the very beginning.  I remember reading one of the letters columns in Raijin and was horrified to hear the Editor say that by far, Guardian Angel Getten was the most popular title included in the magazine.  For those who don&#8217;t know, this was a comic about a wimpy boy who gets an angel servant, who of course is innocent, sexy, and intimidates the hell out of him.  Anime and manga in the US had already &#8220;gone gay&#8221; by the time Raijin came out, and that fanbase was even subsidizing the damn thing!  </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine what it would be like getting a fresh chapter of Fist of the Blue Sky and Grappler Baki in your mailbox every week.  Maybe I&#8217;ll never know what it feels like.  But here&#8217;s hoping this stuff makes a comeback in a big way, someday.</p>
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		<title>By: D.Z.</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113668</link>
		<dc:creator>D.Z.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 10:24:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113668</guid>
		<description>Gib: You&#039;re totally missing out. Craziest gangster stuff around in that series. 

John: I think the Gutsoon peeps didn&#039;t like the color scheme, and canceled the deal they had with the HK touch-up company which was working on the Masters over in Japan. But other than Bart&#039;s hair color being wrong, I was fine with it, dammit. ;-; Oh, well, at least I got Buronson to autograph one of the things @ AX &#039;04....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gib: You&#8217;re totally missing out. Craziest gangster stuff around in that series. </p>
<p>John: I think the Gutsoon peeps didn&#8217;t like the color scheme, and canceled the deal they had with the HK touch-up company which was working on the Masters over in Japan. But other than Bart&#8217;s hair color being wrong, I was fine with it, dammit. ;-; Oh, well, at least I got Buronson to autograph one of the things @ AX &#8217;04&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jonathan L. Switzer</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113665</link>
		<dc:creator>Jonathan L. Switzer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 06:01:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113665</guid>
		<description>Dudley: Not true at all. The Master Edition series only went on for FOUR volumes in Japan, and came out more-or-less at the same time as the U.S. release. (Volumes 1 &amp; 2 followed a month AFTER the US. release, and volumes 3 &amp; 4 came out the SAME month their English language counterparts came out.) A bit of quick Googling confirms this, though I sort of remembered this from a trip to Japan, where I was hoping to find volumes 10+. No such beast exists. Shame, really; this and Viz&#039;s neither-fish-nor-fowl English release of Gundam The Origin will remain incomplete, always, on my bookshelf.

*cries*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dudley: Not true at all. The Master Edition series only went on for FOUR volumes in Japan, and came out more-or-less at the same time as the U.S. release. (Volumes 1 &amp; 2 followed a month AFTER the US. release, and volumes 3 &amp; 4 came out the SAME month their English language counterparts came out.) A bit of quick Googling confirms this, though I sort of remembered this from a trip to Japan, where I was hoping to find volumes 10+. No such beast exists. Shame, really; this and Viz&#8217;s neither-fish-nor-fowl English release of Gundam The Origin will remain incomplete, always, on my bookshelf.</p>
<p>*cries*</p>
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		<title>By: Dudley</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113661</link>
		<dc:creator>Dudley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 Jan 2010 00:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113661</guid>
		<description>A note regarding the Fist of the North Star books - they were just translated versions of the Master Editions that were already out in Japan. At the time, I don&#039;t think North Star was available in any other format in Japan, so they released the series in North America using the same Master Edition format.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A note regarding the Fist of the North Star books &#8211; they were just translated versions of the Master Editions that were already out in Japan. At the time, I don&#8217;t think North Star was available in any other format in Japan, so they released the series in North America using the same Master Edition format.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113656</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:25:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113656</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think I suggested it at all. Aaaaaactually I pretty clearly outlined that it launched at about a ninth of its total circulation goals, and decreased in circulation every week and month thereafter. Raijin failed entirely on its own merits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think I suggested it at all. Aaaaaactually I pretty clearly outlined that it launched at about a ninth of its total circulation goals, and decreased in circulation every week and month thereafter. Raijin failed entirely on its own merits.</p>
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		<title>By: Jade</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113655</link>
		<dc:creator>Jade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 21:11:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113655</guid>
		<description>Yes, there is a disconnect between American and Japanese audiences which publishers don&#039;t always anticipate. Yes, Raijin was an unsuccessful publication. Suggesting that a publication is a spectacular failure because it isn&#039;t sitting next to Superman in a Direct Market shop or because there isn&#039;t an anime series tie-in, or because it doesn&#039;t have Shonen Jump circulation is a bit unrealistic though. If every title needs to be Naruto, what exactly are you reading?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, there is a disconnect between American and Japanese audiences which publishers don&#8217;t always anticipate. Yes, Raijin was an unsuccessful publication. Suggesting that a publication is a spectacular failure because it isn&#8217;t sitting next to Superman in a Direct Market shop or because there isn&#8217;t an anime series tie-in, or because it doesn&#8217;t have Shonen Jump circulation is a bit unrealistic though. If every title needs to be Naruto, what exactly are you reading?</p>
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		<title>By: RWGibson</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113643</link>
		<dc:creator>RWGibson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Jan 2010 05:56:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113643</guid>
		<description>Yes!  One train wreck I managed to miss.

I can&#039;t see buying a huge weekly just for City Hunter, but I guess maybe I would&#039;ve depending on my disposable income for the week.  I&#039;m among the biggest Hokuto no Ken fan on this side of the Pacific, but the whole Chinese mafia/history thing just doesn&#039;t do it for me. 

RWG (though I probably would&#039;ve ended up buying the HnK reprints)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes!  One train wreck I managed to miss.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t see buying a huge weekly just for City Hunter, but I guess maybe I would&#8217;ve depending on my disposable income for the week.  I&#8217;m among the biggest Hokuto no Ken fan on this side of the Pacific, but the whole Chinese mafia/history thing just doesn&#8217;t do it for me. </p>
<p>RWG (though I probably would&#8217;ve ended up buying the HnK reprints)</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Murray</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113633</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113633</guid>
		<description>Shaenon: MixxZine debuted with Magic Knight Ray Earth, not Cardcaptor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shaenon: MixxZine debuted with Magic Knight Ray Earth, not Cardcaptor.</p>
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		<title>By: D.Z.</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113630</link>
		<dc:creator>D.Z.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 23:05:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113630</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t consider Fist to be misogynistic, since the a-holes who mistreat women get their comeuppance. Meanwhile, in a title like Bleach, they make bullying little girls into a form of comedy. Anyway, I wish they would have taken my advice, which was to cross-promote their mag with the Fist anime from Manga, the City Hunter anime from ADV, and the Jackie Chan City Hunter from Fox and Fortune Star. C1&#039;s problem was that it seemed to be expecting the Shin-chan anime to come out soon, and that didn&#039;t happen until after the company lost the manga rights. Plus, Urban Vision totally blew the opportunity to cross-promote the Cobra anime with the C1 manga via a DVD release. 

Daryl: I will agree that Raijin should have published a &quot;must-have&quot; title, but I think the real issue was that the audience just wasn&#039;t there yet for this content. The sports genre in general seems to do horribly here, due to American kids being fat. And if Berserk didn&#039;t have that anime tie-in, it most likely would have bombed here, too, even though it got published around the same time as Gutsoon. But, in general, the kiddified Sweet Valley High crap was where it was at until it ironically killed itself with its own bubble. Now, ironically when there&#039;s more risk being spread around, there is finally a market for series like Fist and City Hunter, because the fans still around after the &quot;fad&quot; are getting more sophisticated in their tastes, and won&#039;t buy into look-alikes as much as they used to in the past.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t consider Fist to be misogynistic, since the a-holes who mistreat women get their comeuppance. Meanwhile, in a title like Bleach, they make bullying little girls into a form of comedy. Anyway, I wish they would have taken my advice, which was to cross-promote their mag with the Fist anime from Manga, the City Hunter anime from ADV, and the Jackie Chan City Hunter from Fox and Fortune Star. C1&#8242;s problem was that it seemed to be expecting the Shin-chan anime to come out soon, and that didn&#8217;t happen until after the company lost the manga rights. Plus, Urban Vision totally blew the opportunity to cross-promote the Cobra anime with the C1 manga via a DVD release. </p>
<p>Daryl: I will agree that Raijin should have published a &#8220;must-have&#8221; title, but I think the real issue was that the audience just wasn&#8217;t there yet for this content. The sports genre in general seems to do horribly here, due to American kids being fat. And if Berserk didn&#8217;t have that anime tie-in, it most likely would have bombed here, too, even though it got published around the same time as Gutsoon. But, in general, the kiddified Sweet Valley High crap was where it was at until it ironically killed itself with its own bubble. Now, ironically when there&#8217;s more risk being spread around, there is finally a market for series like Fist and City Hunter, because the fans still around after the &#8220;fad&#8221; are getting more sophisticated in their tastes, and won&#8217;t buy into look-alikes as much as they used to in the past.</p>
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		<title>By: Shaenon</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113627</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaenon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 22:28:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113627</guid>
		<description>I love these posts.

I loved Raijin in a very wrong way and was sorry to see it go.  But it was doomed.  There just wasn&#039;t enough of an audience in America for old-school manly-man manga.  It&#039;s the kind of stuff that appeals to longtime manga nuts, especially those who work in the industry, who love seeing something different, but your average manga fan or your average comic-book fan was just going to blink at it in confusion.

Comics Bunch is basically the Image Comics of Japan--a bunch of disgruntled star artists from a major label who left to form their own indie alliance--and bringing their work over here worked about as well as trying to sell Savage Dragon/Spawn crossovers in Tokyo.

Putting &quot;Bow Wow Wata&quot; into Raijin was indeed an insane move, but don&#039;t forget that Tokyopop launched its first manga magazine with a lineup of Sailor Moon (cutesy magical-girl shojo), Cardcaptor Sakura (cutesy magical-girl shojo), Ice Blade (ultraviolent seinin action), and Parasyte (ultraviolent seinin sci-fi).  And it worked!  Of course, it worked because as soon as Mixx/Tokyopop realized the shojo stuff was selling, it ditched the seinin manga and started plugging the hell out of Sailor Moon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love these posts.</p>
<p>I loved Raijin in a very wrong way and was sorry to see it go.  But it was doomed.  There just wasn&#8217;t enough of an audience in America for old-school manly-man manga.  It&#8217;s the kind of stuff that appeals to longtime manga nuts, especially those who work in the industry, who love seeing something different, but your average manga fan or your average comic-book fan was just going to blink at it in confusion.</p>
<p>Comics Bunch is basically the Image Comics of Japan&#8211;a bunch of disgruntled star artists from a major label who left to form their own indie alliance&#8211;and bringing their work over here worked about as well as trying to sell Savage Dragon/Spawn crossovers in Tokyo.</p>
<p>Putting &#8220;Bow Wow Wata&#8221; into Raijin was indeed an insane move, but don&#8217;t forget that Tokyopop launched its first manga magazine with a lineup of Sailor Moon (cutesy magical-girl shojo), Cardcaptor Sakura (cutesy magical-girl shojo), Ice Blade (ultraviolent seinin action), and Parasyte (ultraviolent seinin sci-fi).  And it worked!  Of course, it worked because as soon as Mixx/Tokyopop realized the shojo stuff was selling, it ditched the seinin manga and started plugging the hell out of Sailor Moon.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Thompson</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113626</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Thompson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 21:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113626</guid>
		<description>Incredible post! Poor Raijin... hubris, definitely hubris...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incredible post! Poor Raijin&#8230; hubris, definitely hubris&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: THE BEAT &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Kibbles &#8216;n&#8217; Bits - 1/11/10</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113618</link>
		<dc:creator>THE BEAT &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Kibbles &#8216;n&#8217; Bits - 1/11/10</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 17:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113618</guid>
		<description>[...] Chris Butcher continues his look at manga milestones with Raijin Comics, showing that a milestone isn&#8217;t always all [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chris Butcher continues his look at manga milestones with Raijin Comics, showing that a milestone isn&#8217;t always all [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Green</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113617</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:58:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113617</guid>
		<description>Interesting entry. I was really excited by Raijin when it came out and bought the first few issues, but the reality of trying to have both the money and the time to invest in something like this wore me down pretty quickly. I fell behind, quit buying it, and never did catch up. I was glad to see a lot of these series get exposure in America, though, particularly Fist: those master editions are fantastic. Wish I had more than 3 of them...

I&#039;m pretty sure the first sports manga in English was Rumiko Takahashi&#039;s &quot;One Pound Gospel.&quot; Sure, it was mostly a romantic comedy, but it was also packed with multiple-chapter boxing matches.

Also, as far as Ironcat goes, it looks like they &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.comicbookdb.com/publisher.php?ID=1281&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;launched in 1997&lt;/a&gt; with Cutie Honey, Flag Fighters, and Doctor! But the people who ran Ironcat were creating English translations of manga before that through Antarctic Press.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting entry. I was really excited by Raijin when it came out and bought the first few issues, but the reality of trying to have both the money and the time to invest in something like this wore me down pretty quickly. I fell behind, quit buying it, and never did catch up. I was glad to see a lot of these series get exposure in America, though, particularly Fist: those master editions are fantastic. Wish I had more than 3 of them&#8230;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure the first sports manga in English was Rumiko Takahashi&#8217;s &#8220;One Pound Gospel.&#8221; Sure, it was mostly a romantic comedy, but it was also packed with multiple-chapter boxing matches.</p>
<p>Also, as far as Ironcat goes, it looks like they <a href="http://www.comicbookdb.com/publisher.php?ID=1281" rel="nofollow">launched in 1997</a> with Cutie Honey, Flag Fighters, and Doctor! But the people who ran Ironcat were creating English translations of manga before that through Antarctic Press.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113614</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 16:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113614</guid>
		<description>Hi there, I was just thinking, didn&#039;t Harlem Beat (published by the then Mixx Entertainment) come out in America before Slam Dunk was serialized in Raijin?  And also, pertaining to an earlier post, were you saying that Cardcaptor Sakura was first serialized in the newer Tokyopop manga size? Since, if I remember correctly, at first it was released as a Pocket Mixx paperback in the smaller size, then later rereleased in the new size in box sets (although the Master of the Clow section of the series started in the new size).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there, I was just thinking, didn&#8217;t Harlem Beat (published by the then Mixx Entertainment) come out in America before Slam Dunk was serialized in Raijin?  And also, pertaining to an earlier post, were you saying that Cardcaptor Sakura was first serialized in the newer Tokyopop manga size? Since, if I remember correctly, at first it was released as a Pocket Mixx paperback in the smaller size, then later rereleased in the new size in box sets (although the Master of the Clow section of the series started in the new size).</p>
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		<title>By: dave merrill</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113612</link>
		<dc:creator>dave merrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:48:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113612</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this analysis!  I should have been paying attention at the time, but I blinked and they were gone.

What struck me about Raijin was that their art direction was really ugly. Ugly fonts, too much text, colors from the &quot;fireworks package&quot; palette, can&#039;t get enough of those metallic inks. Ugly in a way that works in Japan, with Japanese text, but with English text it gives off a cheap Hong Kong knockoff vibe.  I can remember seeing the first Raijin release and thinking it was some kind of grey market quasi legal thing - when in fact the opposite was true. I mean, &quot;Gutsoon&quot;?  What kind of name is that? 

Also, I think they failed to realize that people who liked &quot;Fist Of The North Star&quot;... they were done with it.  It lasted a long long time. By the time it was over, the last thing anybody wanted to see was more giant muscular people beating each other until their heads explode. Even the die hard FOTNS fans completely disavow the second half of the series, except for the one episode where the characters based on the popular &quot;Junkyard Dogs&quot; wrestling tag team meet their end in some fashion involving a nuclear device.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this analysis!  I should have been paying attention at the time, but I blinked and they were gone.</p>
<p>What struck me about Raijin was that their art direction was really ugly. Ugly fonts, too much text, colors from the &#8220;fireworks package&#8221; palette, can&#8217;t get enough of those metallic inks. Ugly in a way that works in Japan, with Japanese text, but with English text it gives off a cheap Hong Kong knockoff vibe.  I can remember seeing the first Raijin release and thinking it was some kind of grey market quasi legal thing &#8211; when in fact the opposite was true. I mean, &#8220;Gutsoon&#8221;?  What kind of name is that? </p>
<p>Also, I think they failed to realize that people who liked &#8220;Fist Of The North Star&#8221;&#8230; they were done with it.  It lasted a long long time. By the time it was over, the last thing anybody wanted to see was more giant muscular people beating each other until their heads explode. Even the die hard FOTNS fans completely disavow the second half of the series, except for the one episode where the characters based on the popular &#8220;Junkyard Dogs&#8221; wrestling tag team meet their end in some fashion involving a nuclear device.</p>
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		<title>By: Matthew Murray</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113611</link>
		<dc:creator>Matthew Murray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113611</guid>
		<description>Bomber girl was really terrible. Just wow terrible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bomber girl was really terrible. Just wow terrible.</p>
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		<title>By: Daryl Surat</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113610</link>
		<dc:creator>Daryl Surat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 15:01:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113610</guid>
		<description>As one of the...10 subscribers to Raijin Comics, I will say I enjoyed it while it lasted at least. It&#039;s always been my feeling that, as you said, the anthology really needed a &quot;killer app&quot; sort of title to make people really want to go out and buy the thing, and at the time of its release, there was really only one property that would have done the job: Trigun. Of course, Trigun was published by a different Japanese publisher and wasn&#039;t nearly as popular in Japan as Slam Dunk (which despite being a sports manga fan, I&#039;ve always loathed), so that never came about. But it wasn&#039;t a Viz or Tokyopop title, and so it was at least within the realms of possibility; Dark Horse later released the series in the US.

I think your assessment of Tetsuo Hara is just a tad harsh. It&#039;s not really delusions of grandeur to say that Fist of the North Star is one of the greatest manga of all time. Regardless of one&#039;s personal opinions on the work, from a pure numbers and especially influence perspective, it IS that and not in any &quot;ironic&quot; or &quot;sarcastic&quot; sense. Fist of the North Star was the first of the modern-era shonen action/adventure manga, the genre by which most of the most popular anime and manga titles worldwide belong to. Certainly, other titles preceded it but the conventions and character tropes established within it became the template by which contemporary hits such as Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Naruto, Bleach, et al followed and continue to follow to this day. Raijin may be gone, and FotNS&#039;s mainstream popularity has certainly passed, but even in 2010 they continue to make new merchandise, videogames, comics, and cartoons for this franchise from a quarter-century ago and enough people continue to buy them that they can justify making even more.

But you&#039;re right in that Hara&#039;s mistake WAS indeed the same mistake of the rest of the publication: the assumption that success in Japan would correspond to success in America. Anything related to Fist of the North Star--which Raijin put forth as their flagship title--had two things going against it: a decade of awful localization and the fact that unlike its modern-day successors, it came from a time where editors of &quot;boy&#039;s comics&quot; weren&#039;t overtly concerned with appealing to female readers the way they are today. In the case of the prequel series Fist of the Blue Sky, that wasn&#039;t even an action series. It was a gangster drama set in the 1930s with substantially less fighting and bloodshed; the result of being a seinen (&quot;men&#039;s&quot;) comic targeted at the 20+ crowd rather than one targeted towards boys 14 and under like the original.

Last year I had the pleasure of seeing Jonathan Tarbox, formerly of Raijin Comics, give some panels at a fan convention. The story he noted regarding the origin of Shonen Jump USA seems to be the opposite of what you listed. Perhaps this is independent of the order of press release, perhaps it&#039;s bias towards one side, but he noted that the idea for Shonen Jump USA arose from a Japanese board meeting that basically amounted to &quot;those defectors from us think THEY can launch a US manga anthology? Well, we&#039;ll show them!&quot; True or not, I imagine there&#039;s still bad blood at the Jump offices for their former star editors and authors who left to start their own publishing company.

Great read, along with all of the other Manga Milestone posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one of the&#8230;10 subscribers to Raijin Comics, I will say I enjoyed it while it lasted at least. It&#8217;s always been my feeling that, as you said, the anthology really needed a &#8220;killer app&#8221; sort of title to make people really want to go out and buy the thing, and at the time of its release, there was really only one property that would have done the job: Trigun. Of course, Trigun was published by a different Japanese publisher and wasn&#8217;t nearly as popular in Japan as Slam Dunk (which despite being a sports manga fan, I&#8217;ve always loathed), so that never came about. But it wasn&#8217;t a Viz or Tokyopop title, and so it was at least within the realms of possibility; Dark Horse later released the series in the US.</p>
<p>I think your assessment of Tetsuo Hara is just a tad harsh. It&#8217;s not really delusions of grandeur to say that Fist of the North Star is one of the greatest manga of all time. Regardless of one&#8217;s personal opinions on the work, from a pure numbers and especially influence perspective, it IS that and not in any &#8220;ironic&#8221; or &#8220;sarcastic&#8221; sense. Fist of the North Star was the first of the modern-era shonen action/adventure manga, the genre by which most of the most popular anime and manga titles worldwide belong to. Certainly, other titles preceded it but the conventions and character tropes established within it became the template by which contemporary hits such as Dragon Ball, Rurouni Kenshin, Naruto, Bleach, et al followed and continue to follow to this day. Raijin may be gone, and FotNS&#8217;s mainstream popularity has certainly passed, but even in 2010 they continue to make new merchandise, videogames, comics, and cartoons for this franchise from a quarter-century ago and enough people continue to buy them that they can justify making even more.</p>
<p>But you&#8217;re right in that Hara&#8217;s mistake WAS indeed the same mistake of the rest of the publication: the assumption that success in Japan would correspond to success in America. Anything related to Fist of the North Star&#8211;which Raijin put forth as their flagship title&#8211;had two things going against it: a decade of awful localization and the fact that unlike its modern-day successors, it came from a time where editors of &#8220;boy&#8217;s comics&#8221; weren&#8217;t overtly concerned with appealing to female readers the way they are today. In the case of the prequel series Fist of the Blue Sky, that wasn&#8217;t even an action series. It was a gangster drama set in the 1930s with substantially less fighting and bloodshed; the result of being a seinen (&#8220;men&#8217;s&#8221;) comic targeted at the 20+ crowd rather than one targeted towards boys 14 and under like the original.</p>
<p>Last year I had the pleasure of seeing Jonathan Tarbox, formerly of Raijin Comics, give some panels at a fan convention. The story he noted regarding the origin of Shonen Jump USA seems to be the opposite of what you listed. Perhaps this is independent of the order of press release, perhaps it&#8217;s bias towards one side, but he noted that the idea for Shonen Jump USA arose from a Japanese board meeting that basically amounted to &#8220;those defectors from us think THEY can launch a US manga anthology? Well, we&#8217;ll show them!&#8221; True or not, I imagine there&#8217;s still bad blood at the Jump offices for their former star editors and authors who left to start their own publishing company.</p>
<p>Great read, along with all of the other Manga Milestone posts.</p>
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		<title>By: RavenProject</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113609</link>
		<dc:creator>RavenProject</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 14:47:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113609</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the retrospective... always wondered what was going on behind the scenes here. I actually was a fan of Raijin Comics and disappointed to see them go.

Side note: When choosing tuxedos for my wedding, I brought a copy of Raijin Comics and showed them the tux from First President of Japan.

-J</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the retrospective&#8230; always wondered what was going on behind the scenes here. I actually was a fan of Raijin Comics and disappointed to see them go.</p>
<p>Side note: When choosing tuxedos for my wedding, I brought a copy of Raijin Comics and showed them the tux from First President of Japan.</p>
<p>-J</p>
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		<title>By: Simon Jones</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113607</link>
		<dc:creator>Simon Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 13:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113607</guid>
		<description>B... but, FotNS IS the best manga ever made. The ultra violence, the 80s biker kitch, and the bromances.  Oh, the bromances...

Thanks for sharing this painful, but insightful read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>B&#8230; but, FotNS IS the best manga ever made. The ultra violence, the 80s biker kitch, and the bromances.  Oh, the bromances&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing this painful, but insightful read.</p>
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		<title>By: Princess Knight rides again &#171; MangaBlog</title>
		<link>http://comics212.net/2010/01/10/manga-milestones-2000-2009-10-manga-that-changed-comics-6/comment-page-1/#comment-113604</link>
		<dc:creator>Princess Knight rides again &#171; MangaBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Jan 2010 12:23:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://comics212.net/?p=4759#comment-113604</guid>
		<description>[...] Butcher continues his excellent series on manga milestones with a look at Raijin Comics #46 and Antique [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Butcher continues his excellent series on manga milestones with a look at Raijin Comics #46 and Antique [...]</p>
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