Comments on: Bluewater: Shifty Non-Payment Garbage

By: Will Von Wizzlepig

Will Von Wizzlepig — Tue, 25 Jan 2011 20:36:28 +0000

funny, I already had this up on a different tab… http://jhische.com/workforfree.html

By: Andy

Andy — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:09:59 +0000

Chris- I suppose it’s possible that I was ‘talking more smack’ than I thought and in no way was I attempting to say Oni was just as bad as Bluewater. Oni is a pretty well known company that has put out plenty of books, I don’t think they would have been around for so long if they were totally sketchy.

But I do know someone who’s book was published through Oni in 2005 and they received $3000 up front (as you stated) for 136 pages. He had no ownership rights and made nothing after that initial payment, even though the book sold very well. In the end that’s a year’s worth of work for a very small sum.

It did get his name out there, but he said next time he would rather make a back end deal and be the owner through a company like Image.

By: Richard

Richard — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 19:07:08 +0000

@4Q2-
Late last year BlueWater acquired the rights to publish all materials from Revolutionary Comics. As many of Todd Loren’s books were pending litigation when they went under, I have wondered how much of a can of beans Davis opened up with that deal.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 17:53:01 +0000

Andy- That’s not entirely true about Oni’s deal, there was a considerably more complex assignation of rights, and unlike Bluewater Oni pays that in advance, not on the back end. I think you’re talking a little more smack than you think you are.

By: 4Q2

4Q2 — Wed, 20 Oct 2010 16:03:16 +0000

Is Bluewater related to ReVisionary Press aka Revolutionary Comics?

By: Andy

Andy — Thu, 14 Oct 2010 01:38:38 +0000

Plenty of companies do back end deals, but I always thought it was when the writer/artist is the owner, which makes sense.
This whole thing baffles me. Is there no fair practices act for something like this?

Also, I don’t know if they still do, but Oni Press had a pretty sketchy agreement. For a graphic Novel they’d give the creator $3000 flat and that’s it.

By: Comics Publisher Has Lousy Rep with Freelancers « World

Comics Publisher Has Lousy Rep with Freelancers « World — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 04:30:45 +0000

[...] One thing that the press doesn’t report about Bluewater is that the company offers its creators anincredibly lousy contract. [...]

By: Gaga, Beiber Vs. Comic Books: 1st Amendment, Trademark Abuse Or Hissy Fit? - Techland - TIME.com

Wed, 01 Sep 2010 15:01:41 +0000

[...] similar cases in the past have ended with the publishers victorious. Of course, Bluewater has a shady past when it comes to payment for its creators, so maybe this is merely some odd form of publishing [...]

By: Sportsmen take aim at Bluewater’s DeGeneres comic | Robot 6 @ Comic Book Resources – Covering Comic Book News and Entertainment

Wed, 21 Apr 2010 13:55:43 +0000

[...] we heard about Bluewater Productions, the publisher was getting bad press for making bad comics and not paying creators. But now it gets to play the Heroic Defenders of a Noble Cause by issuing this press release [...]

By: David LeVack

David LeVack — Thu, 04 Feb 2010 16:59:50 +0000

You know who else has a nasty contract if you ever get to see it. Arcana. Basically, if you have a property, they make it so they become the sole owner, AND they have the option to remove any of the creative team at any time, and change anything in the material at any time. Besides the fact it gets exploited into other media and they are the sole owner of those exploits.

By: Chris

Chris — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 08:01:37 +0000

Ouch, you got me, douche!

By: Richard

Richard — Wed, 27 Jan 2010 01:32:11 +0000

I absolutely agree. I wrote a couple of articles about Darren Davis back in the Fall, and have since been approached by a grand total of 23 creators who all claim (at the very least) non-payment.

http://comicnews.info/?p=9014

By: THE BEAT » Blog Archive » Bluewater: finding new ways not to pay people

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:47:54 +0000

[...] reaction: Johanna Draper Carlson one and two, Tom Spurgeon, Chris Butcher. Also this thread where actual “creatives” discuss their payment issues is edifying [...]

By: THE BEAT » Blog Archive » Bluewater: finding new ways not to pay people

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 21:47:54 +0000

[...] reaction: Johanna Draper Carlson one and two, Tom Spurgeon, Chris Butcher. Also this thread where actual “creatives” discuss their payment issues is edifying [...]

By: David

David — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:27:26 +0000

At least they got published. They knew what they were signing, no one held a gun to their head. You sound jaded I take it you have never been published.

By: Kurt Busiek

Kurt Busiek — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 18:18:02 +0000

>> Well, Neil Gaiman’s first published work was Duran Duran quickie, and his second was about Douglas Adams and the HITCHHIKER’S GUIDE.>>

Not true on either count, actually. Neil’s first published book was the Duran Duran book, but it wasn’t his first published work — wasn’t he doing fantasy reviews and pop-music interviews before that? His first published fiction came out the same year, as well.

His second book was GHASTLY BEYOND BELIEF, not DON’T PANIC. And by then he was selling comics stories too, I think.

And it’s not as if the Duran Duran book led editors to think he could write fiction — the fiction led to that. The Duran Duran book, though, is a perfectly viable early credit for someone pursuing music journalism, which he was at the time.

But his fiction career came from writing and selling fiction, and his comics career began with selling short stuff to 2000 AD. He broke in at beginner levels in each area.

By: Brian Hibbs

Brian Hibbs — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 17:27:51 +0000

“I have a hard time believing an editor is going to look at that and go “Shit, this person writes great trashy celeb cash-in biographies, I definitely want to see what they can do with a completely different style of writing.” Like, it could happen, but colour me unsurprised that it hasn’t yet.”

Well, Neil Gaiman’s first published work was Duran Duran quickie, and his second was about Douglas Adams and the HITCHHIKER’S GUIDE.

But your general point is correct.

-B

By: Comics A.M. | The comics Internet in two minutes | Robot 6 @ Comic Book Resources – Covering Comic Book News and Entertainment

Tue, 26 Jan 2010 16:15:27 +0000

[...] Productions' back-end payment deal (creators are paid when, and if, a comic turns a profit). [Comics212, Comics Worth [...]

By: The Alabaster Sock

The Alabaster Sock — Tue, 26 Jan 2010 04:08:21 +0000

[...] this is an interesting [...]

By: Phil Nelson

Phil Nelson — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 21:48:49 +0000

Sounds a lot like standard operating procedure of the music industry, actually.

By: Why I Won’t Cover Bluewater » Comics Worth Reading

Why I Won’t Cover Bluewater » Comics Worth Reading — Mon, 25 Jan 2010 20:57:52 +0000

[...] now word comes that the company is making money by not paying their artists. In short, they only pay the people who create the comic once they’ve made a profit … [...]