Customer interaction 1 minute ago.
[Customer is a full-grown man(child) standing in front of one of the anime cases, jumping up and down. Ostensibly to see the top shelf.]
Chris: Bit of glare on the case I guess, can I help you with anything sir?
Customer: Do you guys have sales?
Chris: Usually on boxing day. That’s about it…
Customer: Oh, I want that anime but it’s too expensive. That’s why I asked if you have sales. You guys should lower your prices or I’ll have to download it.
Chris: Excuse me?
Customer: People will download it if it’s too expensive. You should lower your prices.
Chris: So if you walked into a store and didn’t like the price of a can of coke you would just rob them?
Customer: Oh… uh, I’m not going to rob you.
Chris: You’re going to rob the company instead.
Customer: Yeah.
Chris: That’s awful. That’s awful.
Customer: Uh…
Chris: You are awful.
[Customer sheepishly leaves store.]
End Scene.
– Christopher
Mmmm, downloadable soft drinks.
Downloadable soft drinks? Interesting idea… time to steal it! (sinister laugh)
John- I’m not an absolutist when it comes to downloading, but honestly? Standing in front of me implying that unless I give him the disc for whatever price he demands he’s just going to go steal it? Fuck that guy.
I am so making a mental note of this for later usage. Most excellent.
I love you more today than yesterday and will totally use that the next time a customer tries the same shit with me.
Ha, does this tie into the generational divide among anime fans you mentioned last post? Because some of the talk I’ve heard of that identifies the ease of downloading as a pretty major aspect of the new-generation anime fan, in contrast with the struggle toward legitimacy (commercial viability) of the older fan, even if he/she dealt in shitloads of fansubs back in the day…
I also think it’s interesting how people like me, who jumped in as the first wave of proper VHS rose in the early ’90s, tend to get grouped in as a generation with folks who sat in con screening rooms when I was two, watching raw footage with someone occasionally pausing the tape to explain the plot… but maybe anime was never big enough in North America to have easily divisible generations until the internet exploded access…
I think it’s awesome that you guys can put idiot customers in their place, because I really wish I could do that shit were I work (… well, and at Anime North…). Like the website says, the customer is NOT always right.
I do download shows, but it’s mostly in a “try before you buy” capacity… generally if it’s something I like, I want it on my shelf, and if it’s not… well, why would I waste shelf or disk space on something I dislike? That said, anime prices are a bit ridiculous at times, but it has gotten more reasonable recently. BANDAI and ADV have been pretty fair over the years, MEDIABLASTER’s is a fucking steal most of the time, and FUNIMATION is… just fucking worth it. They put a LOT of work into making their discs actually worth paying five dollars more than anyone else. GENEON and BANDAI VISUAL are the only guys who really gouge(d in GENEON’s case) you. Basically, if you’re not willing to pay $24.99 a disc for anime, you’re not willing to pay for ANY DVD of ANY movie or TV show. I’d like to see that guy walk into FUTURESHOP and be all like, “If you don’t price-drop DEADWOOD, I’m just going to download it…” It’s not going to happen. -_- At what point is the price low enough that it’s NOT more cost effective to download it? It doesn’t work that way.
I think that the internet has just made it so that the option isn’t, “Do I REALLY want this?” but, “Do I REALLY want to PAY for this?” because they just don’t HAVE to. And if you’re an asshole, the answer will always be, “NO.”
I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to deal with people that try to blackmail you into dropping your prices by threatening to just NOT PAY FOR THE SHIT. That would drive me insane.
The first year I worked the San Diego con back in 2001, a pair of weisenheimers walked into the EROS Comix tent, looked around for a few seconds, turned to me without prompting and said, “No thanks, I already downloaded what I wanted.”
Welcome to the 21st century.
Jerry- Hugs!
Jog- I probably shouldn’t have mentioned that before I had finished my thoughts on the generational divide, but I think there are probably three generations of anime fans: The dudes (and few ladies) trading raw footage and fansubs through cons, universities, and the proto internet; the ‘middle generation’ who had legitimate video and dvd releases and saw the rise of the material; the naruto generation, for whom there has always been and always will be manga and anime when they want it (discs, tv, movies, downloads).
But yeah, the newest generation definitely has a sense of entitlement to them places a lack of monetary value on the material… I think the previous couple of generations had less entitlement (though it was still there, nerd rage is omnipresent) because the material, frankly, barely existed.
Derek- Well said.
Dirk- I feel awful for the porn producers… You guys, Simon, etc. Most places don’t stock porn, and most of the time the folks selling the porn aren’t people you want to buy it from. The internet was a godsend for folks who didn’t want their local comic guy to know about their kinks.
Chris –
I don’t really have a coherent position on downloading, personally or philosophically, so I’m not really attacking your stance. I was just amused by the thought of downloadable soda pop.
I have mixed feelings about fansubbing and downloading.
My philosophy on the subject is;
If its available through a distributor legally in North America than I purchase it legally.
If it is not available in North America (like Macross 7, Macross Zero, or Macross Frontier) than I’ll watch it on a website like YouTube but I won’t download it to my harddrive to keep just in case there ever comes a day when some of these titles will be available in North America.
I don’t want to get the “Ebenezer Scrooge” syndrome of not wanting to part with the cash to buy a legal copy if it makes it to our shores. Since I don’t have a permanent copy, I’m not tempted to skip buying a legal copy when it becomes available.
That may sound like a lame excuse, but it’s hard to say NO when a show like Macross is highly unlikely to make it to North American shores due to international distribution rights disputes between Japanese and American companies.
That said, let me say that the customer in your shop was awfully lame, IMO, for actually saying that to you.
If he’s an adult(not necessarily in mind but in actual age) I would hope he’d have some concept of why a business has to turn a profit. Not too mention that many domestic subbing and dubbing companies have to spend a pretty penny to actually produce the English version (either subbed, dubbed, or both) in addition to liscencing and marketing. So that “high price” may not be that high after all.
This article(an another one here) got me to pull out some of my old Animag magazines from the 1980s to check the prices of anime from back then.
In Animag issue 9, of 1989, one VHS with two episodes of either Dangaioh or Gunbuster from U.S. Renditions cost $35.99 each (Plus $3.00 S+H).
Now the complete TV series and movies of a show like Evangelion can be had off of Amazon.com (brand new in a thin pack) for $45.99.
We Otaku have never had it so good.
These people saying anime is “too expensive” are just plain spoiled IMHO. I’m happy the prices have come down as far as they have.
When someone photocopies a far side cartoon and pins it up in the office for all to see, is that stealing too? Because really, all those people should be paying 60 cents for the newspaper themselves. You have a clear point in the story, he sounded like a twat. But I feel he was more of a dick for declaring his intent to you like some grave threat than he was for wanting to download anime.
Mouldey- I’m not sure if you’re aware how trite and besides the point your initial argument is. If you’re being sincere, honestly, you really ought to grow up and come up with a better rhetorical tactic than that, “where do we draw the line!?” moral superiority nonsense. Our whole society is about drawing lines and living within them. Greater good, consensus morality, etc.
As for the latter, he was more a grave threat to himself for trying to pull that shit on me. Christ, what a fuckwad. Shame’s the way to go with them, so far as I’m concerned. “YOUR BEHAVIOUR AND ATTITUDE MARKS YOU AS A POOR EXAMPLE OF HUMANITY.”
Dude, WTF…? It’s still going to be more expensive than piracy… I… yeah, I know logic was not at work, there, just… wtf…
Chris, that was awesome. That was very awesome. Keep up the good work.
Personally I agree with the kid. If it’s too expensive and you don’t have enough money or you don’t want to bother your parents, you download it. If you have the money, you buy it, cause you can.
That’s all. Who gives a shit about a company ? They’re here to make money. They don’t give a shit about us, you, me, anyone.
And then, they weep and ask for comprehension and restraint.
In other words, the very opposite of their daily attitude.
I want to press the issue a little more.
It’s easy for you Chris, to act all “I’m doing the right thing he’s a stealer, he’s a threat to himself”.
You
Have
A
Job
This kid has parents. And a computer. So what’s he gonna do ? Stop trying things because Mister-I-Can-Buy-Anything-And-So-Should-You wants him to ?
I like to download anime, but only after I have meticulously researched the background and life history of each and every person who stands to profit in any capacity from my buying the DVD. If I determine that they are morally upright individuals deserving of my money, then I buy the DVD. If I can safely say that every one of them is a money-grubbing opportunist whose only interest is in screwing the customer out of her or his money, then I download it.
It’s called “taking the moral high ground.”
Ah, here we go.
Puddles: I wonder if anyone could stand up to that amount of scrutiny for any reason, or if your style of reasoning is just another thing thieves tell themselves so they don’t have to feel bad about stealing.
Littlehorn: I can only assume you didn’t read the part where I mentioned that he was a grown adult, presumably with job and discretionary income? (I can’t speak to his housing situation, though I guess I wouldn’t be entirely surprised if he was still asking his parents for money…)
Normally your brand of self-righteousness gets tossed right into the spam filter, but I decided to leave it up because I think there’s nothing funnier than a pompous rant when it’s clear the person has _thoroughly_ misunderstood the point of the original post. Thanks for the laugh, sir!
YOU WOULDN’T STEAL A PURSE, WOULD YOU?
I was making fun of people who say “They don’t deserve my money” by imagining what it would be like to actually follow through with that logic.
If anything, I like the idea of downloading if only to give “caveat emptor” a big slap. If the material blows me away, I’d buy it.
As far as comics goes, I subscribed to Marvel Digital. My room is already a fire hazard so buying pamphlets is out of the question. Presently I don’t feel the pressure to keep myself updated, so I don’t need to visit a comics store every week.
Guys, “well, I’d buy it if only I had the money for it” is the weakest excuse ever.
Well gosh, I’d buy a big screen TV if I had the money, but I don’t , so I might as well steal it! Just because you can’t pay for something doesn’t mean you deserve it for free. Sense of entitlement much?
As one of the “swap tapes through the mail” generation I’m of two minds about the current anime downloading crisis: on the one hand it’s terrific to see legitimate releases of anime in English AND subtitled – whichever you want! – that you can just walk into a store and buy, it is literally the dream of 80s anime fandom come true, and anime fans should thank their gods this day is here. On the other hand, these are FANS we’re talking about, they’re so broke-ass they will stand around convention centers with cardboard signs around their necks begging for change, and they have so little in the way of social skills or intelligence that they will attempt to argue you into knocking down prices by using illegal downloading as a bargaining point. If there’s a way they can steal the stuff they will. They’ll shoplift from you too, if they can get away with it. We’re not talking about highly developed moral philosophies here.
People shouldn’t download stuff they can buy at the local store, but they are going to regardless; that genie is out of the bottle. It’s up to the licensors to find a way to deal with the situation. Me, I spent years playing unpaid publicity agent for these people and if they want my help they can start sending me paychecks, or at least release something halfway decent every once in a while.
Oh man… this thread brings me back to the “Badass BBS Halliday” of 1998… I really want to jump in and argue the shit out of this… especially Littlehorn, because that was ridiculous. But I won’t. I guess that means I’m a responsible adult now… sort of.
I think you guys are confusing the difference between material objects and data.
Seriously, there is a HUGE difference between stealing a can of soda, a purse, or a big screen TV than there is to making a copy of an .avi file on your computer.
Please find a new argument, because the current does not make people who download even bat an eye.
You have to remember that we have the ability to hide behind a keyboard and act brave. I am not bashing your stance, I am just saying that making these weak comparisons is not the way to help your cause.
Kristoffer: I get what you’re saying, but if the basic equation of “no anime sales=no anime” doesn’t register with fans, I dunno what else to do.
I think that’s also why it’s important to remind people in the real world, either gently or mockingly, that what they do has consequences. They tend to react differently in person than online.
ANIME WANTS TO BE FREE
PAYING FOR ANIME IS A ROADBLOCK THAT ANIME REROUTES AROUND
Chris,
Could you share more wacky customer stories you encounter at the store?
I’m glad to hear someone, anyone, managing to intelligently
state what should be basics :
everything costs money to make. no money in equals no product out.
also, the usual myriad of arguments for downloading are
nothing but a refusal to accept such a fact, and that people resorting to
deceptive tactics to access anime leads to shakey foundations for the connected
jobs, and for the product the people are paid to make.
I prefer to pay for films – I rarely watch anime – because I know that everything benefits from intentional care and consideration in the selection process. downloading, to me, feels like stealing a bottle of wine and drinking it under the freeway, buying it and being considerate about what you buy, not only supports the makers but refines the product as a result of how intelligent the demands are upon it, weeding out bad products and bad aspects of products people aren’t willing to support in a way which clearly separates in a way that’s as clear a message as a company can hear :
no sales, no profit. no profit, no job. no job, no house etc.
this is my point of view:
* if an anime is too expensive and i can’t afford it, i won’t buy it, so no money will go to the creators.
* when i download that anime, it doesn’t cost anything to the creators, they only don’t get the money i’d pay for it (in this case 0$, since i wouldn’t buy it).
* if i liked it, i’ll probably buy it when i’ll be able to afford it. if i didn’t like it, i won’t. this way my money will go to people whose works i like, even if they aren’t well know, not to people whose works i dislike but are hyped and/or have a big marketing machine behind them.
* also, if i don’t know if i like it or not, i’ll probably save my money for something i know i like.
(also, you can change the word ‘anime’ for the words ‘comic’/’music’/’film’/’software’… almost any time)
It all depends. If the series is licensed (such as Hare + Guu) and you want it, you should buy, borrow or rent it. If an anime is unlicensed and you want to watch it, download it. If you like it, and it does get licensed, then buy it. It’s not that hard. But douchenozzles like the one in your store are awful. Most anime fans that I know aren’t like that. Hell, most are willing to plunk down 60-70 dollars for each disc of the special editions of Haruhi Suzimaya.
I’ve thought quite a bit about the market of comics over the last few years so I’ll put forward my analysis and argument:
1. The comic book production industry is a business.
2. A business seeks to optimize its return on investments and minimize its costs.
3. The comic book production industry sees returns on its investments from four major market segments: new comic book sales, comic book advertising, cross-marketing of related items (memorabilia) and licensing of its intellectual property (brands).
4. The revenue derived from three of the four major market segments of the comics book market are related to the widest possible dispersion of their branded items into public consumption as possible.
4a. As each comic book is downloaded and read they may lose money from selling physical copies of the comic books depending a number of factors (e.g., development costs, production costs, distribution costs, how closely their production run meets actual demand, etc.)
4b. As each comic book is downloaded and read the circulation of the comic increases and the comic book company can charge more for advertising based on that larger reader base. (It’s important to note that circulation is not the same as paid circulation, it’s how much actual readership is present as determined by a circulation audit firm.)
4c. As each comic book is downloaded and read the market for their cross-marketed memorabilia increases. Cross-marketed memorabilia has the benefit of not being easily pirated (action figures, toys and lunch pails tend to stick in the Internet tubes).
4d. As each comic book is downloaded and read the valuation of licensing agreements increases in proportion to the mind share of the licensed brand in the general population.
5. Therefore, it is in the best interests of the comic book production companies to not actively discourage the illegal redistribution of their comic books in downloaded format any more than is required to affirm their rights to the intellectual property. By having third parties reproduce their products and distribute them widely they cut production and distribution costs while maximizing return on capital investment in their intellectual property (within limits).
Unfortunately the losers in this analysis are the local comic book stores and the distribution firms. Of course both of these businesses see increased sales from the cross-marketed memorabilia and sales bumps when licensed products (such as movies or games) are released to wide audiences. Local comic book stores also gain from the entrance of new comic book readers into readership as some percentage of them will become customers for related memorabilia and physical comics. Whether that’s enough to offset the loss of new comic book sales in the long term is anyone’s guess.